This story was very interesting. At the beginning when the author mentions Ivan and his death, the paper says that he was well liked. But, as Ivan’s character is developed throughout the story, you can see more elements that make up his character. Ivan’s purpose of life may have been to be well liked, but he struggled with life and did not seem to be happy. He did not treat people with respect and it’s almost as if he used his family members. And that is not what life is about. I believe that Ivan realizes this right before he dies when he starts to question what his life purpose was and what is right and wrong. In addition, getting ahead in your career should not be what life is all about. Yes, money is always good, but there is more to life. Most of his memories were too painful for him to think about, and so he had trouble seeing anything that was good or positive in his life. This is very sad. A lot of people may wish to have lived their lives differently, but when you cannot remember any happy moment, it just makes life seem worth very little. For me, I want happy moments in my life, and memories that I can be glad to look back on. So based on this story, my question is how do you avoid falling down the same path as Ivan did? How do you decide for yourself what is right and wrong? Is it okay to treat some people disrespectfully to get ahead in life and be well-liked by some?
I feel after reading this story that its only looked at really one way. Ivan was not happy in life because he chose the wrong path. He treated his family members wrong and worried so much more about the big things when really its the little things that matter the most. Life is about the little things in my opinion, and although some things are necessary to have, it doesn't mean it has to be everything. Ivan has nothing to look back on and see that his life was happy, and had no purpose in life at this moment. Even after Ivans lying he had wished to be pitied and was upset when no one pitied him. I feel as though his whole life was not worthwhile, and its sad to see. He realizes it which is for the better but had nothing to look back on. "This falsity around him and within him did more than anything else to poison his last days." This is my favorite line because after everything in his life he had chose to do wrong it had come back to make him realize in his last couple of days of life that everything was wrong. My question would be how would you avoid a life like this so that you dont make the wrong decisions?
The story is the classic case of a person on his/her deathbed realizing they lived but did not live and now regret it. He lives his life well enough until he's on his deathbed. Then during his suffering he realizes that he lived a life empty of meaning. His friend and family regard him as an obstacle to their happiness and nobody will miss them when they die. He was a cog in the machine his whole life and never really stuck out. Nobody cries when a cog breaks, they just replace it with another cog. The question is what could we do differently in our lives to not end up like Ivan Ilych?
This story overall was just sad. After reading it you just end up thinking I never would want this to happen to me. When he is dying he is regretting his decisions and the path he took in his life. I would like to also respond to the recommended reading by Fish. I think the student evaluations are just ridiculous and will only cause more grade inflation and teaching to the test. I thought the part of the article about how teachers cannot get the same kind of feedback in life as other professions can. For a cook for instance they can get a review and the same for a dry cleaner getting a spot out of a shirt, but in terms of teachers you never know until you see how the student succeeded in life. A test is not a good descriptor especially when teachers will teach to the test to get a good review. Overall, I think this is a very slippery slope that can really hurt education. In what way would this ever be helpful?
I walked away from the reading with the impression that Ivan attributed his journey down the wrong path with formal eduction. I think that people tend to idealize their childhood and (sometimes) villinize school, so I disagree. I believe that his education was simply a tool, and he chose to use that tool for selfish materialistic purposes. His law degree didn't make him a power hungry prick, he was probably like that originally, he just didn't have any power to realize it. That being said, I am aware that the formal school system that exists today has its problems. However, what is the alternative? When I envision America without formal compulsory schooling, all I can envision is the collapse of the economy as it attempts to support more and more illiterate generations resulting in millions and millions of people starving to death.
While reading the story about Ivan I felt pity for him that the people who forced themselves to come to his funeral were then making plans to play cards that night. They had no emotions toward his death and the only feelings that his death stirred was their greed in taking over hos spot in the government and fear of their own death. This type of funeral is what most people try to avoid. Ivan wanted to live a good life, a life that was done “easily, pleasantly, and decorously.” He has no real troubles in life and thinks a major issue is that he ordered too many treats and then argued with this wife about them. The life that Ivan was striving to live was not really living and that is why he felt such regret and emptiness toward his life at the end because he realizes that he has not really lived. I recently went to New York and heard a man speak about urban education and he said two words that stuck with me and these words have become the driving force of my life, disrupt yourself. When one steps outside their comfort zone and disrupts the natural flow of his/her life they actually feel emotions and have real experiences and those things are what life is made out of. Ivan was completely content with working and playing cards throughout his life, never challenging himself with important things like relationships. I would state that he was not living but instead almost zombie-like simply going through the motions that society told him to do. Another reason Ivan felt unfulfilled with life was that he was so concerned with random and unimportant things like the décor of his house. When I am looking back on my life 70 years from now I will be thinking about my family and friends and all of the great adventures and all of the struggles we went through together and also the children whose lives I have made a difference in, not the color of my bed spread. I have had an amazing life but not everything has been easy and those struggles make me feel alive and that I am not just a walking zombie. Katie O'Connell
Do not fear death, fear the unlived life. – Tuck Everlasting This quote tells a lot about our main character Ivan Ilych. The story ends with Ivan realizing that his life may have been done “right” but that he had been too preoccupied with it being something than to live it. He was addicted to dissatisfaction with himself. When the story mentions that even with every promotion he was always 500 rubles out of his budget we see that he is chasing the consumer dream. His position in this society reminds me of the machine analogy from the Berkley Protest handout from the last class. The quote mentions the failure of the machine due to the participants sacrificing themselves on the cogs and components until it fails. The tragedy of Ivan is that he realizes his place as a part of the machine on his death bed. His successor opens the story grateful that this is not his funeral and enjoys the obtainment of Ivan’s now vacant position. What the story teaches us is that this successor is doomed to suffer the same fate as Ivan had in the days prior to this promotion. Ivan spends days trying to answer the question, “Why death?” Which inevitably leads him to question, “Why life?” This question bears heavy on Ivan as the mere act of hanging his curtains in his precious home left him writhing in agony for months until he passed away leaving only positions to be filled and obligations of a funeral to be attended to. The act of apology finishing the story fulfills the short life of Ivan. His life only lasted for perhaps 5 minutes. He recognized that in all of his time spent; only his final moments were free from the consumer dreams. It is significant to remember that he followed in his father’s footsteps to begin with. This cycle and chain of death has deeper roots than just this singular incident.
I think (on speculation only, of course) that Rorty and Ivan would be excellent friends. I agree with much of what Megan said; I resonated with Ivan as he was recalling the joy and happiness of his childhood. I'm not sure why, but nostalgia seems to paint a brighter picture than might be accurate. And this is what Ivan seemed to be struggling with toward the end of his life. Though the book was very dark and sad, I thought that Tolstoy did an excellent job provoking thought. I could not help but think that Ivan's line of thought has been remarkably similar to what I've been pondering personally as of late. When I get to the end of my life, what am I going to have? Memories? Possessions? None of that will matter when that fateful moment comes. Will I be angry at everything and everyone, or will I be pleased with what I have done with my life? How can you get to the end of your life without being angry at everyone and hating your life? I like what one ancient writer wrote:
He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves abundance with its income. This too is vanity. There is a grievous evil which I have seen under the sun: riches being hoarded by their owner to his hurt. When those riches were lost through a bad investment and he had fathered a son, then there was nothing to support him. As he had come naked from his mother's womb, so will he return as he came. He will take nothing from the fruit of his labor that he can carry in his hand. This also is a grievous evil--exactly as a man is born, thus will he die. So what is the advantage to him who toils for the wind? Throughout his life he also eats in darkness with great vexation, sickness and anger. Here is what I have seen to be good and fitting: to eat, to drink and enjoy oneself in all one's labor in which he toils under the sun during the few years of his life which God has given him; for this is his reward. -Ecclesiastes 5:13-18
Ivan’s story was pretty depressing. It reminded me a little of the play, “Death of a Salesman,” in that it highlighted the downside of making your whole life about your job. This is one of the reasons that I am going into education, because I want to avoid that somewhat corporate mentality, but at the same time, there is a danger when you work as a teacher of caring so much about your students that they become your whole life. I think that in any profession, balance is so important. But how do you prove yourself, especially in your first year in any job, without letting everything else come second? How do you find that balance in a market as competitive as today’s? I tend to believe that everything happens for a reason, and I really don’t want to be looking back on my life at the end with a lot of regrets. It’s difficult to figure out the best way to go about this, and this story definitely demonstrated that struggle. -Katie Kuvin
I found The Death of Ivan Ilych to be a very peculiar story. Ivan was somehow able to live an artificial life, where he was still able to create a family and excel in his career. Although he obtained these things, he lived a life full of unhappiness and negativity. He is not capable of maintaining deep relationships and is lonely. While Ivan is on his death bed, he ponders over the life that he lived and realizes that he may have made incorrect decisions and took the wrong route in life. I think that this is not a typical story. I feel that most people would have made changes in their lives prior to this point. Ivan allowed himself to get to a point of complete misery. Everyone regrets things later in life, but I feel that Ivan regretted almost all of his life, even though he was the one who chose to live it in the way that he did; materialistically and shallowly. I guess the moral of the story is don't wait until it is too late to make the necessary changes in life.
I was actually quite excited to see that a Tolstoy reading was one of the required readings. A few quarters back I took Russian Literature class and read Father Serguis and Anna Karenina, which I absoutely enjoyed. However, I was slightly disappointed after readiing the story of The Death of Ivan Ilych. It was quite depressing about a man who allowed himself to become so miserable because of they way he lived life, and when he lays dying realizes that he could have lived life loving and respecting himself and others and been much happier. Ivan is a court judge living a life full of haterd and disrespect for his family and himself. He is split between to lives the authentic and artficial life. On his death bed he realizes what is important and no longer hates his daughter and wife and pities his son, all because death helps him realize all the bad things in life he has done. Through death he find himself and then dies sighing. I did not like this story allthough it does have good themes and morals, I found it kind of dense in material and rather boring. I agree with Dana that the moral can be do not wait until it is to late to make the necessary changes in life. However, I am having a hard time connecting this with Education and ethics. All though it can go on to saying treat others as you would like to be treated? I guess dont take things for granted?
I believe that the moral of the story is that society often rejects any idea that they find uncomfortable to talk about. For example, many people avoid talking about death, so they simply push that topic aside. Tolstoy tries to emphasize that no one can avoid death, and that everyone has to face the fact that every single person on this earth has a set time of when they will leave this earth. People have to realize that life is short, and that you cannot push things aside, because no one knows when there time to go is. You have to make the right decisions, live your life, and treat others well before you realize that you have a short amount of time left on this earth, and there is nothing you can do about it. For example, I am sure that most people have heard about this rumor, but there is a priest that announced that judgment day is on May 21st, which is in three days. I am not a Christian, so I do not know the priests exact reasoning for why he stated that the end of the world is on the 21st, but because of his statement, many people began to change their ways because they believe that they have a limited amount of time left on earth. For example, on the news they brought people trying to help others so that they could feel like they did something “positive” in their lives before they leave this earth. Also, even on Facebook for example, many people wrote on their status that they have been reading the bible more or helping out in some way before the 21st. I feel like what these people are doing is actually wrong because the only reason they are doing these things is because they believe that they are going to die in just a few days, and want to do “good” things before they die. These people should have done the things that they are doing now before, and not just start doing them now because they are supposedly going to die. As stated before, a lot of people wished that they could have lived differently. Well, if it turns out that the 21st is not judgment day, is everyone going to stop what they are doing (good deeds) and return to their normal lifestyles? I believe that you never know if you are going to wake up the next day, so you should live your life and do what you think is right before it’s too late.
This story was depressing and upsetting, but it was also thought provoking. It challenges the notions that a successful life is a happy one. Ivan was successful, but he never truly lived. There was no depth and joy to his relationships. Some people may remember a person for their accomplishments, some for the relationships they had with this person, and some individuals inspire both. The ideal life is accomplished and filled with meaning. Ivan’s life was lacking the meaning aspect until he’s on his death bed. Death is scary to think about, but how a person is to be remembered after death is more frightening. His funeral is filled with people planning to play cards, and they don’t feel anything in Ivan’s passing. He will not be remembered as an individual, as inspirational, or as a person worth knowing. He simply existed instead of lived. People in the class have noted that the important part of the story is to not become a shell of a person, living through the motions of life. Living entails so much more. They asked how to avoid living an empty, prosperous life? The story is effective at raising this question, because it pries on normal human fears. I think an important part of life is to find ways that give it meaning. Only a person gives meaning to their life in the end, so what gives life meaning is individualized. However, most people want to be remembered, so relationships and achievements function as a way to live on. Ivan was missing the intimate component of these two, and he was left with regrets.
I didn’t really care for this story. Just not my kind of story. To me it seems that Ivan Illych tried to be a good guy and do the right things. Just sometimes he strayed away from doing good and fell into some guilty pleasures. He seems to have been a very smart man and seemed to be liked by most people, even if he did do something’s that were not always appropriate. He seems to have wanted to be liked and be a part of the highest society and go around with the most notable people of the area. I think a lot of people are like this. They want to do what is right and get along with others but they also want to enjoy some pleasures and fit in with the best crowd of people. I think he also fell into the trap of thinking that being educated made him better and allowed him to get away with things. I think this is what got him in trouble and made his life more miserable than it should have been. I think he regretted his actions later on but he didn’t do much about it. Many people are that way. They have regrets but don’t know what to do about it so just continue living with the regret. It is important to be educated but that does not make you a better person by default. I think it is important to stress this to students because they can easily fall into thinking they are better than others if they are more educated. However, how do you do this but still stress the importance of education to the students? They may feel that you are being hypocritical. Is there a way to stress education but still make sure students don’t think they are better by default when they are more educated than someone else? In addition, we need to teach students not to have regrets because that can make them miserable in life as well. We need to give them opportunities to try new things and encourage them to do so so that later on they don’t regret not trying new things. This is easier said than done though with some students than others but still important to stress.
I was compelled to read the recommended reading Deep in the Heart of Texas by Stanley Fish. I feel like this article tied into our classroom discussion last week about not really learning anything in school and only striving to get good grades. Fish's article elaborates on our classroom discussion by mentioning student evaluations and their bad effects. Naturally if you get an A in a class, you would probably give that teacher a very positive evaluation. If you got a C in a class, the student would probably be compelled to give their teacher a poor evaluation. Fish is right in the fact that your grade does not reflect what you learned. Your A teacher could have spoon fed the class the answers and not actually taught anyone. The C teacher could have challenged the students so much that they had never worked harder in their life. I think students are also inclined to give their teachers positive reviews when they don't have to do much work. American tends to be lazy, and I think that could show on teacher evaluations. My only concern with Fish's article (and he did mention this briefly) was that sometimes student evaluations are good because it is a way to find a "bad" teacher. Now, I am not saying that the students should decide who is a good and who is a bad teacher but sometimes outsiders need to know what is going on in the classroom. I've had teachers that just pop in a movie to teach long division to 3rd graders. I've had teachers leave high schoolers in the classroom unattended for 40 minutes. This is my only reason why student evaluations should be considered, but taken with a grain of salt. Perhaps the administrations could use student evaluations as a looking class into the classroom but find another way to assess teachers. What other ways could we assess teachers without using student evaluations? Would still using student evaluations make administrators biased?
• Reading about Ivan Illych made me remember a few things that we’ve discussed already in this quarter and it reiterated a few other basic human feelings that everyone goes through. I believe that Tolstoy really focuses on the fact that humans know that they must do the right thing, such as going to visit their dear friend even if they live far away and it’s a pain to have to do it. I believe this story proved that you should live life with no regrets and that you should put on your big boy pants and make sure that your friends are well taken care of. I believe that Tolstoy and Rorty have a lot of the same ideas when it comes to the fact that each and every human being suffers pain and humiliation and that everyday life is what you make it to be. When we were discussing Rorty his message really spoke to me, because it was the most relatable to me. Matter of fact, I have tried to keep reminding myself on a daily basis that everyone suffers, just so it helps me to maintain my calmness and not to get so aggravated with people. In my opinion, Rorty and Tolstoy are in agreeance and I believe this is why I liked the Tolstoy piece so much. I just feel like it never hurts to be reminded that everyone suffers. -Emily Mink
This story made me very sad. Ivan lived his life, and realized on his death bed that her regretted most of it, because his life was empty of meaning. He was “part of the machine” and never stood out, or stood up for what he believed in. After reading this story it made me hope that I don’t end up like that. I want to use my life to help people, and not just to be part of an institution. I think that this is something that can definitely be achieved through being a teacher. However, it would also be very easy to be the type of teacher that is extremely boring, and does exactly what the administration or school board says to do, or how to do it. With the trend of overbearing regimes of people in state or national positions, I think it is important for a teacher to keep their integrity in tact in terms of the way they teach. I want to be able to say that I inspired children and changed lives, not that I was a cog in the institutional machine that the American education system is becoming.
The story about Ivan Ilych was seriously depressing to me, which made it rather difficult to read. The fact that Ivan was on his deathbed and could not find satisfaction in his life is the typical portrayal of people on their deathbeds. No one wants to die feeling that their lives have somehow been unsatisfying. I was appalled by the unwillingness of any of Ivan’s family and doctors to help, they basically left him to die. I think too often it is assumed that sick people are just complaining and the attention they deserve is denied. I think if I was Ivan’s wife, I would feel extremely guilty for letting my husband suffer and not doing everything possible to help, especially since Ivan and his wife basically hated one another. I find Ivan’s entire life story to be pretty depressing. Nobody should die feeling that their life is not complete. I did not particularly like this story.
After reading this story, I felt sorry for Illich. It seems that he regrets many of the decisions that he has made in his life and is realizing the mistakes he has made. We have all made mistakes and know what it feels like to be wrong, so I can empathize with him in that aspect. I just feel like I wouldn't want to live a life like he did. Family is very important to me and I couldn't imagine treating them with any sort of disrespect. This story made me think of some of the little decisions I've made or things I've done in my life and look at the impact they've had on my life. When I look back on my life I want to be able to know that I treated those closest to me as kind as I possibly could. Is this life desirable in any way? Would anybody be able to live this kind of life and not feel remorse or regret?
Ivan was not well liked. From the beginning of the story we can tell that Ivan was simply someone that everyone had to deal with and work around. Instead of mourning for Ivan at his service, his so called friends were planning a card game for later in the evening. It is sad to think that he was so disliked that people are more concerned with cards than with his passing. Ivan obviously didn't make the best decisions in life. On his death bed he questions whether or not his life could have been better and less empty. Ivan was more concerned with getting ahead in his career and disrespected many people along the way. Yes, your career is important, but how can you live a fulfilling life without having the support of friends and family along the way? Reading this story has made me think about my life and has got me wondering if what I'm doing now will make me happy for the rest of my life.
After reading the story, I felt very sorry for Ivan. He clearly chose the wrong path in life and just had the wrong values. I am a firm believer that money and status, while great, doesn't bring you happiness. Instead, it is the people in your life that make it worthwhile. For me personally, I know that nothing I've accomplished in my life would mean very much if I didn't have people that I love to share those accomplishments with. It seems like Ivan was completely focused on the wrong things - money and social status. I think everyone’s fear in life is to be lying on their death bed, unhappy and dissatisfied with their life. Ivan died with a lot of money and he was considered to be of high class, but he was unhappy. Guaranteed there were others, less financially fortunate than him, who died happily, surrounded by loved ones that very same day. This story just goes to show that if we make life decisions based on how much money we will make, or what we can financially gain, we are not going to be truly happy. We need to make decisions based on what makes us happy – it may not be the thing that makes the most money. Unfortunately, I believe that society directs us to value money. Obviously, we need it to survive -nothing that will keep us alive comes free. But our society emphasizes that school is necessary to get a good job, to make lots of money, because then you will be happy. I don’t think this is the right message to be sending students.
I found the article "Deep in the Heart of Texas" to be very relavent to the future education system in Ohio. Ohio's government is pushing toward using student evaluations as a way to determine a teachers pay. As stated in the article when a teachers pay is based on the satisfaction of their students the level of difficulty they teach with will decrease, because they want their students to enjoy being in their class.
When I look back at my years in high school the classes/ teachers that I enjoyed the most were the ones that required me to do the least amount of work and were the most fun to be in. At the time I felt like these classes were the best for my education, but after being out of high school for a few years the teachers that I appreciate the most are the ones that challenged me. These teachers prepared me for college and my future career. But at the time I would not have given these teachers a high satisfaction rating because I did not enjoy their class. This is not fair to those teacher for doing their job correctly and to their best ability.
This brings up the question how can a students opinion be a significant factor for a teachers pay and what effects on education will this type of system have?
I feel like this story is a good example of the pitfalls that we are to avoid in life. Ivan is dying and comes to the realization that he is truly not happy with how he has lived his life. He went down the wrong pathways as he simply cared about his career and his own well being. This is a warning about the lifestyles that we are to avoid if we are to be truly loved by those around us, showing us how lonely and unhappy we can become if we look out only for ourselves. Ivan did not treat those around him with resepect, and practically almost used his own family members to achieve his gains. As Ivan lay there, he realizes that he had trouble thinking of anything positive in his life, and that most of his memories from throughout his life were simply too painful to think about. He begins to lament many of the decisions that he had and starts to see that maybe he should have run things differently. Many of those who see such times wish that they had lived their lives differently. Unfortunately for many of them it is simply too late to change anything but they are able to see what is truly important in life. The question to ask is how can we avoid being like Ivan? The other question to ask is how do we truly decide what is right and wrong? This is often easier said than done and is a life long process.
From the Fish article, “In the recent past, A&M announced that it wanted to be a top ten public university. Now it appears to be announcing it wants to be an investment firm, a pharmaceutical manufacturer, and a car dealership.” I didn't realize until I found myself deep in my collegiate career that higher education is a business. It is all about MONEY. Discussed in brief at the last class meeting, why does OSU make me go to graduate school to get my teaching licensure? MONEY. Why do I have to take 5 classes covering the same information on childhood development? MONEY. Honestly, it makes me sick how obsessed this country is with capital. Fish comments on the ludacris idea that the students should be the ones telling the teachers how they should be taught. As if we don't have to go through grueling hours of classes and research to know what we're doing. If I am going to end up teaching in a classroom where my students are ultimately determining my salary based on how fun I am, then I want no part of it. As Fish says, many of the best teachers are the ones who teach you something that you recognize a decade down the road. GOOD teachers are not necessarily FUN teachers. A parent is your parent, not your friend just like a teacher is your teacher, not an entertainer. Teachers are professionals, we are knowledgeable about children and how they develop. We know what to do and how to do it. We are experts, yet we are treated like nannies. I think we can all agree how absolutely insane this is!?!? So my question is, if this concept is as nutso to everyone as I assume (or hope) how can it seriously be considered? How can the people in charge honestly believe this is the best way? And if they do, we need new people in charge, because I am not going to school for thousands of dollars and 4+ years to be graded by a seven year old or a moody teenager.
I would like to comment on the article about student evaluations. I am very much against having high school students and elementary school children do evaluation. Most of them are too immature and would not adequately rate their teachers. However, after reading the article I felt a little upset about the way he spoke of college students and their use of student evaluations. The truth is that college education is a commodity. I have to pay for it (and it’s a lot of money), therefore I should get a say in how my education goes (at least in the sense that I am actually getting the education I pay for). I know this isn't the case for all college students, but I try to be very fair when I evaluate a teacher. However, as we were talking about last week, we take basically the same kind of classes over and over again (especially in the early childhood department) and we learn the same things. Since I have to pay to take those classes and I actually do want to learn, I think I have a right to say those classes are not stimulating or effective especially when the teacher just does a PowerPoint and you could look at the material online by yourself. I actually like classes where I learn a lot and I am challenged especially the ones in my field of study. The article made it sound like all college students are lazy drones that hate doing any work. I may not be a very vocal student in class but I take a lot in and learn a lot from the class discussions. I know some students base their evaluations on whether or not the professor was entertaining but I really try to evaluate how I have learned and if the teacher really cared about teaching. Again, as long as higher education costs money and we have to pay to go to school, we have a right to say how we want our education to be. I feel college is different than high school and elementary school because we make the choice to be here and pay for it whereas in high school you are required to go. I do agree that the way college evaluations are done is not the best way to measure the teaching process. What is the best way to measure a teacher's performance through evaluations?
The story of Ivan Ilych was really sad. It is a story of not living life to the fullest and being more concerned with making a name for one's self rather than living in the moment. I was really struck by the scene in the beginning where Ivan's friends learn of his death and their first though is of their own advancement as a result. It makes you think about how self absorbed we are as a society that we can not even take a moment to simply mourn the death of a friend. The story makes you think about the decisions you make in life and whether looking at the big picture is really worth it if you have regrets on your death bed. -Katie Petrolo
This story is a sad example of how perception of a man might not be the actual story of the man. Ivan was looked upon by others as this upright and noble person, as described at the beginning of the story. However, the longer we go into the story, you can definitely see how things aren't as they appear from the outside perspective. The more success Ivan achieved, meant that more things were required to keep him happy. He started as an easy going guy with simple goals, and turned into a man who let superiority get the best of him. He felt that he needed someone to blame for his sickness. He placed blame on anybody who he felt didn't pity him enough. Nothing was ever his fault, and he turned into an attention starved person. Ivan thinks that his whole life was lived the right way, and he did nothing wrong to deserve such a painful ailment. He continuously reverts back to his anger towards those who don't pity him, and that is when his pain is at a maximum. Only when he is moments from death, does he reach an epiphany. That maybe he didn't do everything as perfectly as he thought he had. That maybe he is more of a burden to his family than they are to him. His selfishness had completely consumed him, and he never looked at his situation from his family's perspective.
This shows how easily we can get caught up in our personal affairs and how it can ruin those we care about the most. Are we making the right decisions? We can look back and second guess every action we've taken in our lives, but regret is a useless emotion. We make our bed, and we have to lay in it. We made our choices with good reason at the time. Looking back, we might not remember why or how we reached the decision to make an action, we just see the consequences of them. Regret only leads to further anguish. Ivan, however, was so absorbed with himself, he didn't even realize the possible harm his actions did to others. The realization he has just before he dies, is the acceptance he has of such harm he has inflicted on others. That he could have done things differently. There is no changing the past. Especially when death is upon you. Make the decisions you need to make, and regret nothing. Just be sure to accept the results of your actions, good or bad.
My initial reaction to “The Death of Ivan IIych” is one of inspiration. The slow agonizing death of Ivan and the lack of love and companion in his life is undoubtedly depressing. However, the message to live beyond the ordinary life is incredibly motivating. The story of Ivan is all too common in society today. Too many people live meaningless and unfulfilling lives. Many Americans take jobs and families only because they think that is what is expected of them. Just like Ivan, too many people marry the wrong person, and stay with them for the wrong reasons. Millions of Americans live beyond their means and buy houses only to fill them up with junk from Home Depot or Bed Bath and Beyond. Where is the meaning and fulfillment in that? It took Ivan up until his death bed to realize that he led a life of little consequence and meaning. Maybe that is why Tom wants us to read this. Maybe as teachers we can live meaningful lives. We can lead lives beyond the ordinary. We can inspire and motivate our students to live purposeful lives.
After reading this story, it makes me want to live my life to the fullest even more. Ivan lived a long life, but he regrets many things that he didn't take more seriously and choose to do. This is a classic story of a person who didn't take advantage of oppertunities that were presented to him. Ivan didn't live his life to the fullest, and he seems to be really bothered by some of the smaller choices and events that had happened to him. This story really makes you aware of how crucial every choice you make in life is. If you choose the wrong path, life can end rather quickly and without living life to its fullest. While it is a sad story, it has a very powerful meaning behind it. Live your life to the fullest, so you don't regret it later on. What can teachers do to help? That is the big question that teachers struggle with. Motivating and becoming role models in these people's lives can go a long way in helping them out.
After reading this account, I do feel that this story is all too common among most people of today. Often times the focus is placed on ones own career and success over one's happiness. In our society it is easy to fall into the routine of "keeping up with the Joneses" and comparing oneself to everyone around. The thought is that if everyone else has these things and they are happy, then I need these items and life to make me happy. However, as in the case of Ivan Ilych, the harsh reality of this outlook sets in when time has run out. I, like many of the others who posted, found this story to be very inspiring and almost a cautionary tale of what to be careful of in my life. I obviously do not have al of the same views as Ivan Ilych, being that I am in the education profession and will not make an enormous salary. I chose education because music is my passion and I love sharing this with others. I am fortunate to have found this passion and can directly experience transcendence through my music making and teaching. It is through this passion that I intend to aid in my students' discoveries of what their individual passions are and to avoid making the same choices as Ivan Ilych.
It appeared that most of Ivan's life was miserable. He lost a few very good jobs, disliked being around his family, and sometimes could not afford his lifestyle. This is not a great way to live. People need to find their niche and stick to it no matter how much money it makes. Happiness is very important at any age. I feel that I went into the correct job path because I find it rewarding. Everyday is a new challenge. Ivan's family followed the same career steps, so he did not have the opportunity to follow his own dreams.
After reading the story about Ivan, the very first thing I thought was "WOW! That really sucks to feel all of this right before your life ends!" and then mysecond, more imnportant thought was "Ireally hope that I dont feel this way at the end of my life!" The more I read of the story the more sad and dpressed I felt for Ivan. Clearly, he did not live his life the way he wanted to, andsadly many people feel this way as they are approaching death. People put such a massive importance on money and career success that they miss just living life. I know having money is important, its a valuable tool for survival. But there are way more important things in life. I know that once I am a teacher I will not be banking tons and tons of money. Which might mean that I may not get the newest cars or tv's. But I love children and I cannot wait to be able to have my own classroom! My mom has always told me that as long as you love your job then it wont be considered work. And I truely believe that if you are doing something just simply for the money then you, like Ivan, will be a miserable person and will have a great amount of regrets in life.
I like what other people have commented about living life concerned with making a name for yourself vs. living in the moment. There was a lot of regret from Ivan’s point, while he was on his death bed, about his life and decisions he made. The story is sad, but it could also be beneficial to read. I tried to think of why we would read this as future teachers. One reason could be that, in teaching, there is a problem where teachers want to get paid more and look good as a professional and don’t care about their students as much. I think that living in the moment for teachers means putting forth the effort that is needed to develop a healthy classroom environment where the students can learn, grow, and be encouraged. It means working hard at what you do to develop lessons that will push and teach your students in a positive way. I think it also means that teachers should work to meet the needs of their students and collaborate with them throughout the learning process. In this way, I think this novel could be telling us something about teaching. At the end of our time as teachers, will we look back with regrets? Or will we look back knowing that we gave the profession and the students all we had to offer?
I found the Ilych reading to be quite depressing in its entirety due mainly because my own personal beliefs, attitudes and lifestyle choices are vastly different from those of the character. As I was reading, I felt as though I was being agonizingly dragged along through a stubborn inner-monologue of a person who cannot see the value in the simpler, more beautiful, integral, naturalistic aspects of life. While we surround ourselves with “things”, day-to-day tasks, etc. it is not to fill the value of our lives through those things. In our age of technology and advancement, it is so easy and almost commonplace to be wrapped up in the popularity of updating your Facebook, checking celebrity tweets, watching the newest episode of Tosh.0, waiting for Apple to come out with yet another device better than the last, etc. It is also far too easy in this age to be wrapped up in the general melancholy state of being where we deal with these things day in and day out. In Ilych’s day these “things” would be the cookie-cutter lifestyle he desired; the interior decorating, dinner parties, knowing the right people, etc. In both aspects, are we not groomed to be this way? To stress over how we are perceived, how much money we make, how much success we have? Should not success be measured by happiness in right action? In any case, I felt that Ilych realizing this on his death bed is slightly dramatic for me because I feel that I already realize this at a very young age and in that sense am way ahead of Ilych. Tolstoy, whether he intended to or not, perhaps taught many this ideology and consciousness of the mundane life. How then can we as teachers begin to teach future generations to embody this idea at an early stage? Through right action and example? -Matt Zabiegala
As much as I enjoyed reading the story, I felt very bad for Ivan Ilych. He lived a very sad life from the inside, even though the story tells us that he was liked by everyone, it appeared to him when he was on his death bed that nothing he has done, was true, or right and that he was not honest with himself for a very long time. Ivan managed to accomplish all aspects of a successful life, a good profession, a wife and children. Apparently very successful, but was he happy?
A sad story like this one is rich with meaningful points of how people should live their lives. How do we want people to remember us? As persons who worked very hard and had no life so our existence was meaningless, or was people who made a change in our lives. As a student, I remember many of my teachers who made a change in my life. As a teacher, on the other hand, I want to be remembered as a good teacher who made a great change in my students’ lives to the better. So in myself I have to be satisfied with my life, with my achievements, I have to be able to do the right thing, and not regret what I am doing, unlike Ilych. If I walk in the right path of my life, I would be able to change everything to the better, even in the school where I work; I can make changes to work for the best of my students. I can go above and beyond the school system rules to help my students. I do not want death to be the end when I realize that I have not done anything to help myself live a better life, or make the people around me happy.
My question is: how much of time does it take a person to realize that he is wrong? Are there ethical rules to live a good life? Do these rules apply to school life as well? I think life is complicated but living a good life is possible when we live ethically, following the rules and traditions of our culture and what we believe in.
I found the story about Ivan Ilych's life to be very sad and depressing. From the beginning of the story, after Ivan's death, we learn that even his wife is not very upset over the death of her husband. Instead, she is more concerned with the amount of money the government is willing to give her instead of grieving over the death of her husband. Also, we see that Ivan almost struggles more mentally than physically while he is in the process of dying. Ivan is forced to recall events from his life and to come to the sad conclusion that although he has done what is "right", he has not lived his life to the fullest. Although this is depressing, it is also inspirational. As future teachers, we should pass this message along to our students. I think that in today's society there is so much emphasis upon doing what is "right" even when it is not fun. In our classrooms, we need to remember that life is not always about standardized testing and getting into the most prestigious university. Although these things are important, as educators, we also need to emphasize other important things in life such as friends, family, and fun. My question is, in as complex of a society as we live in today, how do we as educators find the time to fit everything in? We do not want our students to grow up with regrets about their lives like Ivan did, but we also are told that we need to focus on the "right" things.
The Stanley Fish reading brought up issues that I had never really thought about before. I guess that I always just assumed that nobody really pays attention to the student evaluations so I have never thought of them actually having an impact. I know that when I fill out the evaluations I would never factor in my grade, unless I feel that it was completely unfair, which I never have. I mainly talk about whether I feel that the professor actually cared about his or her students and about the class in general. If I personally do not like his teaching style then that is not his problem. However, I understand that their our students that will take out their bad grade out on the teacher whether it was their fault or not, and that is not okay. Since this is the case, I feel that their should definitely be a better evaluation technique in place, such as asking yes or no questions like "Was the professor always on time?" A teachers career should never be based on a students personal biased opinion. Yes, we should be able to share our opinions, because we knows how someone teaches better than the students, but not everyone will speak the truth or even know what the truth is. However, without student evaluations will teachers begin to not care as much about the students?
I would like to focus my comments on the Fish article. I would first like to point out that any idea that considers secession as a viable option makes any further ideas you may have null and void in my opinion! That said, after reading this article, and remembering other "great" ideas that have come from the great state of Texas (dubya) maybe secession would be best for all parties involved...Just something to think about.
Should teacher's merit raises or tenure positions be subject to student satisfaction responses? Absolutely not! I like the author only became aware of the value of my education many years later. The idea of giving a survey to a group of temperamental teenagers or uninformed middle schoolers is just absurd, plan and simple. As a current social worker, I am currently mandated by the ADAM board to complete what is called an OHIO Scale every 90 days. This scale is a very subjective tool used to gage how the client and their parent feels the client is functioning. I as the client's worker and third party also complete a scale. Typically each scale is completely different. The client themselves will often minimize the problems they are having, and the parents given the degree of frustration they are feeling on that particular day often describe problem in a more intense manner than is likely being experienced. The problem with such scales in general is the subjective nature of the tool. So much relies on how the individual who is completing the scale feels on that given day. I can see this being repeated over and over in classrooms across Texas. Students who were either jaded by a boyfriend/girlfriend, or close friends will take such feelings out on the instructor. Conversely a student may be enamoured by a teacher and give he/she higher marks than they deserve. So what is the answer? I believe that principal or assistant principals should take time to observe teachers in the classroom on a more consistent basis. After a few hours they will be more than able to make an educated opinion about said teacher. As far a college professors or instructors, why not create a position who's sole job is to observe instructor's in the classroom. Allowing students to dictate a educator's future unfathomable to me. If this is the future of education, why not eliminate the teacher altogether and make education a virtual experience?
This Ivan Ilych story was miserable. Unfortunately, this is what can happen when a person focuses on one goal. He learned his craft and did nothing but his craft, ignoring his family and alienating others. It makes me think of what could be going on in some of the students lives that I substitute for. When I ask why these kids have a “chip on their shoulder” or just bad attitudes in general and after this reading I thought, what if it’s because they have a parent or two like Ivan. Maybe the parents are not just obsessed with work, but with other things outside of the child. It really takes a toll. I think if the parents aren’t home to give and receive respect it’s going to be even more challenging to earn the respect from the already unhappy student. It also makes me think of what kind of teacher I want to be and I decided I don’t want to be Ivan. I do not want to have to step on people or be nasty and hideous to others to achieve my goals as an educator. I don’t think I need to test the waters with teachers and administration just because I think I have the right to do so. Hopefully as an educator I can use Ivan’s story so students can decide if they want to live a life like Ilych or as a person who wants to be remembered in a positive light. Norma
I did not like the story about Ivan llynch because of how drab and depressing it was but it did make you think. At first when the author is discussing how all of the other characters are initially thinking about how Ivan's death is going to impact them by getting promotions and transferring their family, I got really upset. My thought to this was that a man just died and these people who are his colleagues and supposed friends are not wondering how his family is handling his death or anything of this sort that you would assume most people would be concerned with but they are being selfish and wondering what they can get out of it. This made me very mad but as I thought about it more I realized that this is how many people are in the world, focused on themselves and do not care about others and their wants and needs as long as their personal goals and needs are met and accomplished. Another thing that got me thinking was the first sentence of the second chapter, "Ivan Ilych's life had been most simple and most ordinary and therefore most terrible." Many people wish their lives were more simple but in fact our lives are all very complex and therefore we feel as is they are the 'most terrible' because of this. I believe that this may be a bit of 'the grass is always greener' mentality.
I agree with many of the comments. While reading the story I just couldn't help but to think how depressing it all was. Specifically that no one around Ivan had any empathy and they were all self-involved. When describing Ivan's life, I couldn’t help to notice just how, I don't know, mundane it all sounded. Although he traveled & lived in different cities, his life was empty. His relationships with other people were hollow, and his existence shallow. I found that it was especially interesting that as a judge, he detached himself from the people in court, esp. those on trial, but then found that everyone had detached themselves in the same way while he was sick. Retribution, maybe?
The story just really made me take stock and helped emphasize that life is not about doing "what’s right" in the eyes of other or living based on society's standards. Life is about living, finding happiness, having moments of joy & fulfillment. I'm sure that as a teacher, it will be the little things that give me those moments. I will also be sure to seek these things out in life in general: to be willing to take risks and live life for joy & peace, and not propriety...
Throughout the entire reading until about Chapter 10, I believed that Ivan Ilych was creating his death. I believed that Ivan was upset with life and lost the meaning of life in his thoughts. I viewed Ivan as coming up with a reason to be ill, but in reality he was just angry at the world. However, when reading Chapters 10-12 I believe it was not that Ivan was creating his death, but rather that he was coping with dying. Ivan had a guilty conscious and was reliving all of his past memories. He was trying to validate his actions. Ivan was upset with how he handled some situations and was questioning if he lived the best life that he could have lived. Ivan doubted his time on Earth and what he had accomplished. I believe that all of these thoughts were Ivan’s way of coming to terms with dying. It is not until Ivan accepted his life and forgave himself for the things that he could not change that he died. Once Ivan was able to come to terms with the life that he lived he was able to let go.
This book showed the struggles that one goes through when trying to conceptualize death. There is hope that there is more after it ends. It is scary and many fear thinking about the inevitable. Ivan takes us through that process. When I was a nursing major we learned about the signs of dying. When a person dies they have to accept death first. This is shown through Ivan. It makes me wonder though if people fear death more than they enjoy the time they do have? Ivan spent months fearing death which took away from the time that he could have spent with his family. Why is it that we fear death? I believe a lot of fear comes from the fact that no one really knows what happens after death so we allow our mind to run wild in the possibilities. Many of these possibilities can be scary, but it is when we allow our self to make peace with what is to come that we are able to appreciate our time on Earth.
While reading this story I was getting frustrated with how miserable it made me feel. In the beginning of the story, at the funeral, I found it very interesting how one of the guys was focused on a bridge game and the funeral didn’t even seem that important. Another part that stuck out to me was how Peter felt very uncomfortable about Ivan’s death and wanted to hear more about it. How Peter feels about death is similar to how Ivan felt when he was dying; he didn’t understand why it was happening to him. I would hate to end my life in a way that I regretted how I lived it . While he was living his life and making money he was happy but after looking back on it he realized how miserable of a life he had. He was focused too much on materialistic things. I believe that someone should live a life where they are not just focused on themselves. Throughout his death, Ivan keeps going back to how maybe he didn’t live his life right. One could ask what does living a life right truly look like and is it necessary in order to die peacefully?
I think The Death of Ivan Ilych is unfortunately an example of how many people end up after living an extremely focused, career-driven life. Our generation is strongly focused on knowledge and education. For the most part, we strive to learn, grow, achieve, and excel. This drive towards excellence seems great, but because of this unending desire to achieve, our generation has become severely career-oriented, so much that we often sacrifice things that other generations might have not, in order to put full effort and dedication into a job. And here, we have Ivan Ilych, who put important aspects of life on the back burner while he focused on his own personal success. He realizes what he has done and regrets pushing important and necessary aspects of his life away, but unfortunately, it was too late.
I have watched this happen to friends I know. They enter the beginning of their career and are so focused on doing a great job and making a good impression, they ignore things they once prioritized and valued. I think it is important to be aware that this happens, especially as teachers. Teaching is a profession that doesn't end at 3:00 when the bell rings. Teachers are constantly putting hours into planning and thinking of new and different ways to help their students succeed. It is extremely easy to get wrapped up in this and I think it is very important to make time for non-career values, like family, friends, and anything that made a person happy before entering a busy career. If those values are distorted or lost, WE become lost and may not recognize it until it's too late, like Ivan Ilych.
I really enjoyed reading this article/story. I felt that it had a wonderful life message. There are more important things in life than your career/money. The small things are what matters most. This story kinda of reminds me of a quote I have heard before, "Life is too short to live with regrets. So love the people who treat you right. Love the ones who don't just because you can. Believe everything happens for a reason. If you get a second chance, grab it with both hands. If it changes your life, let it. Kiss slowly, forgive quickly. No one ever said life would be easy, they just promised it would be worth it". This article was pretty sad but its message is clear.
I really enjoyed reading both The Death of Ivan Ilych and Fish's article. It seems to me that the central problem in both cases is an active focus on the superficial and immediate which pushes away the the more substantial and rigorous parts of life - those parts which are ultimately the most rewarding and meaningful. Ivan Illych purposefully shuts out "all that [is] raw, vital," and is "always capable of separating the official when he need[s] to and of discarding the human." It is only the spectre of death that is powerful enough to make him truly acknowledge what an empty life, so regrettably focused on appearances, he has led. Our educational system, dependent as it is on student evaluations, isn't so different. As Fish points out: "Student evaluations, by their very nature, can only recognize, and by recognizing encourage, assembly-line teaching that delivers a nicely packaged product that can be assessed as easily and immediately as one assesses the quality of a hamburger." We want Ivan Ilych's pleasant and decent, but insubstantial, kind of experience. Fish asserts that often the very best teaching is characterized by confusion and discomfort. I wholeheartedly agree with this based on my own experience. Because of previous disappointing educational experiences, when I did encounter professors who confused me, I had enough wisdom - and desire to learn - to feel delighted. I enjoyed and thrived on the challenge. Unfortunately, I think many people who go to college don't actually have a desire to learn, but instead just want the piece of paper which makes them appear capable for a job. So they just "get by" without demanding much from themselves. For Ivan Ilych it was death, but is there anything that can snap people out of their indifference toward rigorous, truly involved learning and desire for material success? I'm not sure there is, but I would like to think that I will be able to inspire some of my future students to truly enjoy learning, to nurture their innate curiosity, and even - maybe - to value confusion.
This story of Ivan was very depressing, I felt bad for the man. The positive thing is that this story is a lesson to all of us to not make our life in to a meaningless job, setting our minds on meaningless things. I think this is a great example of what can happen if money and a career is our goal. I think it is important to consider this when we are teaching and what exactly are we preparing our students for. Many readings in this class have been about the goals of the education system. This story is a forewarning, that if we are a system that is solely to get children through school to get to college to get a job to make money, we are doing millions of people a disservice. If we keep this as our focus we are going to have many people who are dissatisfied at the end of their lives because their focus was on getting through to make money. I like this story of Ivan if that is the message we take from it, that our education systems need to change. We need to inspire individuals, not just pass them through to get the grade and make money. It will be a sad sad world if this is what we make our children to be. -Megan Conway
I did not find the article of the death of Ivan because I found the article dull in the context however I thought the message was intriguing. I thought it was disgusting to think that his colleagues were concerned with how they are going to benefit from his death. I think that even today people look how they can benefit from others' pain no matter what the cost is. I feel that those who get what they desire never stop wanting and continue to become greedy. Many people in our society are never satisfied with what they have, there is always something more that they desire and strive to attain. We have gotten so caught up in materialistic items and many people do not have genuine feelings for other business partners. We have become such an industrialized society that we are strictly business.
This reading seemed very important to me and my life. I constantly find myself living my life for others and not focusing on what my life means to me. I want to be happy. This reading probed me to ask myself what happiness is. Is it being a college graduate, someone with their masters degree? With 2 kids a dog and a house in suburbia with a white picket fence? While we all strive to be well-liked, will that even help to make us happy? I would rather disagree with people over moral issues and be known for my personal strength and known as a hard worker who is not afraid to stand up for myself. Being well-liked can only take you so far, but since reading this story I see that it can be a weakness. I do agree that we should focus more on the value of people and their ideas and not on material things just because society tells us that we need to. Tolstoy tends to deal with moral issues and I find that when I read his work I ask myself a lot of questions about morality.
This story was very interesting. At the beginning when the author mentions Ivan and his death, the paper says that he was well liked. But, as Ivan’s character is developed throughout the story, you can see more elements that make up his character. Ivan’s purpose of life may have been to be well liked, but he struggled with life and did not seem to be happy. He did not treat people with respect and it’s almost as if he used his family members. And that is not what life is about. I believe that Ivan realizes this right before he dies when he starts to question what his life purpose was and what is right and wrong. In addition, getting ahead in your career should not be what life is all about. Yes, money is always good, but there is more to life.
ReplyDeleteMost of his memories were too painful for him to think about, and so he had trouble seeing anything that was good or positive in his life. This is very sad. A lot of people may wish to have lived their lives differently, but when you cannot remember any happy moment, it just makes life seem worth very little. For me, I want happy moments in my life, and memories that I can be glad to look back on.
So based on this story, my question is how do you avoid falling down the same path as Ivan did? How do you decide for yourself what is right and wrong? Is it okay to treat some people disrespectfully to get ahead in life and be well-liked by some?
I feel after reading this story that its only looked at really one way. Ivan was not happy in life because he chose the wrong path. He treated his family members wrong and worried so much more about the big things when really its the little things that matter the most. Life is about the little things in my opinion, and although some things are necessary to have, it doesn't mean it has to be everything. Ivan has nothing to look back on and see that his life was happy, and had no purpose in life at this moment. Even after Ivans lying he had wished to be pitied and was upset when no one pitied him. I feel as though his whole life was not worthwhile, and its sad to see. He realizes it which is for the better but had nothing to look back on. "This falsity around him and within him
ReplyDeletedid more than anything else to poison his last days." This is my favorite line because after everything in his life he had chose to do wrong it had come back to make him realize in his last couple of days of life that everything was wrong. My question would be how would you avoid a life like this so that you dont make the wrong decisions?
The story is the classic case of a person on his/her deathbed realizing they lived but did not live and now regret it. He lives his life well enough until he's on his deathbed. Then during his suffering he realizes that he lived a life empty of meaning. His friend and family regard him as an obstacle to their happiness and nobody will miss them when they die. He was a cog in the machine his whole life and never really stuck out. Nobody cries when a cog breaks, they just replace it with another cog. The question is what could we do differently in our lives to not end up like Ivan Ilych?
ReplyDeleteThis story overall was just sad. After reading it you just end up thinking I never would want this to happen to me. When he is dying he is regretting his decisions and the path he took in his life.
ReplyDeleteI would like to also respond to the recommended reading by Fish. I think the student evaluations are just ridiculous and will only cause more grade inflation and teaching to the test. I thought the part of the article about how teachers cannot get the same kind of feedback in life as other professions can. For a cook for instance they can get a review and the same for a dry cleaner getting a spot out of a shirt, but in terms of teachers you never know until you see how the student succeeded in life. A test is not a good descriptor especially when teachers will teach to the test to get a good review.
Overall, I think this is a very slippery slope that can really hurt education. In what way would this ever be helpful?
I walked away from the reading with the impression that Ivan attributed his journey down the wrong path with formal eduction. I think that people tend to idealize their childhood and (sometimes) villinize school, so I disagree. I believe that his education was simply a tool, and he chose to use that tool for selfish materialistic purposes. His law degree didn't make him a power hungry prick, he was probably like that originally, he just didn't have any power to realize it. That being said, I am aware that the formal school system that exists today has its problems. However, what is the alternative? When I envision America without formal compulsory schooling, all I can envision is the collapse of the economy as it attempts to support more and more illiterate generations resulting in millions and millions of people starving to death.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading the story about Ivan I felt pity for him that the people who forced themselves to come to his funeral were then making plans to play cards that night. They had no emotions toward his death and the only feelings that his death stirred was their greed in taking over hos spot in the government and fear of their own death. This type of funeral is what most people try to avoid. Ivan wanted to live a good life, a life that was done “easily, pleasantly, and decorously.” He has no real troubles in life and thinks a major issue is that he ordered too many treats and then argued with this wife about them. The life that Ivan was striving to live was not really living and that is why he felt such regret and emptiness toward his life at the end because he realizes that he has not really lived. I recently went to New York and heard a man speak about urban education and he said two words that stuck with me and these words have become the driving force of my life, disrupt yourself. When one steps outside their comfort zone and disrupts the natural flow of his/her life they actually feel emotions and have real experiences and those things are what life is made out of. Ivan was completely content with working and playing cards throughout his life, never challenging himself with important things like relationships. I would state that he was not living but instead almost zombie-like simply going through the motions that society told him to do. Another reason Ivan felt unfulfilled with life was that he was so concerned with random and unimportant things like the décor of his house. When I am looking back on my life 70 years from now I will be thinking about my family and friends and all of the great adventures and all of the struggles we went through together and also the children whose lives I have made a difference in, not the color of my bed spread. I have had an amazing life but not everything has been easy and those struggles make me feel alive and that I am not just a walking zombie.
ReplyDeleteKatie O'Connell
Do not fear death, fear the unlived life. – Tuck Everlasting
ReplyDeleteThis quote tells a lot about our main character Ivan Ilych. The story ends with Ivan realizing that his life may have been done “right” but that he had been too preoccupied with it being something than to live it. He was addicted to dissatisfaction with himself. When the story mentions that even with every promotion he was always 500 rubles out of his budget we see that he is chasing the consumer dream. His position in this society reminds me of the machine analogy from the Berkley Protest handout from the last class. The quote mentions the failure of the machine due to the participants sacrificing themselves on the cogs and components until it fails. The tragedy of Ivan is that he realizes his place as a part of the machine on his death bed. His successor opens the story grateful that this is not his funeral and enjoys the obtainment of Ivan’s now vacant position. What the story teaches us is that this successor is doomed to suffer the same fate as Ivan had in the days prior to this promotion. Ivan spends days trying to answer the question, “Why death?” Which inevitably leads him to question, “Why life?” This question bears heavy on Ivan as the mere act of hanging his curtains in his precious home left him writhing in agony for months until he passed away leaving only positions to be filled and obligations of a funeral to be attended to. The act of apology finishing the story fulfills the short life of Ivan. His life only lasted for perhaps 5 minutes. He recognized that in all of his time spent; only his final moments were free from the consumer dreams. It is significant to remember that he followed in his father’s footsteps to begin with. This cycle and chain of death has deeper roots than just this singular incident.
I think (on speculation only, of course) that Rorty and Ivan would be excellent friends. I agree with much of what Megan said; I resonated with Ivan as he was recalling the joy and happiness of his childhood. I'm not sure why, but nostalgia seems to paint a brighter picture than might be accurate. And this is what Ivan seemed to be struggling with toward the end of his life. Though the book was very dark and sad, I thought that Tolstoy did an excellent job provoking thought. I could not help but think that Ivan's line of thought has been remarkably similar to what I've been pondering personally as of late. When I get to the end of my life, what am I going to have? Memories? Possessions? None of that will matter when that fateful moment comes. Will I be angry at everything and everyone, or will I be pleased with what I have done with my life? How can you get to the end of your life without being angry at everyone and hating your life? I like what one ancient writer wrote:
ReplyDeleteHe who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves abundance with its income. This too is vanity. There is a grievous evil which I have seen under the sun: riches being hoarded by their owner to his hurt. When those riches were lost through a bad investment and he had fathered a son, then there was nothing to support him. As he had come naked from his mother's womb, so will he return as he came. He will take nothing from the fruit of his labor that he can carry in his hand. This also is a grievous evil--exactly as a man is born, thus will he die. So what is the advantage to him who toils for the wind? Throughout his life he also eats in darkness with great vexation, sickness and anger. Here is what I have seen to be good and fitting: to eat, to drink and enjoy oneself in all one's labor in which he toils under the sun during the few years of his life which God has given him; for this is his reward.
-Ecclesiastes 5:13-18
Ivan’s story was pretty depressing. It reminded me a little of the play, “Death of a Salesman,” in that it highlighted the downside of making your whole life about your job. This is one of the reasons that I am going into education, because I want to avoid that somewhat corporate mentality, but at the same time, there is a danger when you work as a teacher of caring so much about your students that they become your whole life. I think that in any profession, balance is so important. But how do you prove yourself, especially in your first year in any job, without letting everything else come second? How do you find that balance in a market as competitive as today’s? I tend to believe that everything happens for a reason, and I really don’t want to be looking back on my life at the end with a lot of regrets. It’s difficult to figure out the best way to go about this, and this story definitely demonstrated that struggle.
ReplyDelete-Katie Kuvin
I found The Death of Ivan Ilych to be a very peculiar story. Ivan was somehow able to live an artificial life, where he was still able to create a family and excel in his career. Although he obtained these things, he lived a life full of unhappiness and negativity. He is not capable of maintaining deep relationships and is lonely. While Ivan is on his death bed, he ponders over the life that he lived and realizes that he may have made incorrect decisions and took the wrong route in life.
ReplyDeleteI think that this is not a typical story. I feel that most people would have made changes in their lives prior to this point. Ivan allowed himself to get to a point of complete misery. Everyone regrets things later in life, but I feel that Ivan regretted almost all of his life, even though he was the one who chose to live it in the way that he did; materialistically and shallowly. I guess the moral of the story is don't wait until it is too late to make the necessary changes in life.
I was actually quite excited to see that a Tolstoy reading was one of the required readings. A few quarters back I took Russian Literature class and read Father Serguis and Anna Karenina, which I absoutely enjoyed. However, I was slightly disappointed after readiing the story of The Death of Ivan Ilych.
ReplyDeleteIt was quite depressing about a man who allowed himself to become so miserable because of they way he lived life, and when he lays dying realizes that he could have lived life loving and respecting himself and others and been much happier. Ivan is a court judge living a life full of haterd and disrespect for his family and himself. He is split between to lives the authentic and artficial life. On his death bed he realizes what is important and no longer hates his daughter and wife and pities his son, all because death helps him realize all the bad things in life he has done. Through death he find himself and then dies sighing.
I did not like this story allthough it does have good themes and morals, I found it kind of dense in material and rather boring. I agree with Dana that the moral can be do not wait until it is to late to make the necessary changes in life. However, I am having a hard time connecting this with Education and ethics. All though it can go on to saying treat others as you would like to be treated? I guess dont take things for granted?
I believe that the moral of the story is that society often rejects any idea that they find uncomfortable to talk about. For example, many people avoid talking about death, so they simply push that topic aside. Tolstoy tries to emphasize that no one can avoid death, and that everyone has to face the fact that every single person on this earth has a set time of when they will leave this earth. People have to realize that life is short, and that you cannot push things aside, because no one knows when there time to go is. You have to make the right decisions, live your life, and treat others well before you realize that you have a short amount of time left on this earth, and there is nothing you can do about it. For example, I am sure that most people have heard about this rumor, but there is a priest that announced that judgment day is on May 21st, which is in three days. I am not a Christian, so I do not know the priests exact reasoning for why he stated that the end of the world is on the 21st, but because of his statement, many people began to change their ways because they believe that they have a limited amount of time left on earth. For example, on the news they brought people trying to help others so that they could feel like they did something “positive” in their lives before they leave this earth. Also, even on Facebook for example, many people wrote on their status that they have been reading the bible more or helping out in some way before the 21st. I feel like what these people are doing is actually wrong because the only reason they are doing these things is because they believe that they are going to die in just a few days, and want to do “good” things before they die. These people should have done the things that they are doing now before, and not just start doing them now because they are supposedly going to die. As stated before, a lot of people wished that they could have lived differently. Well, if it turns out that the 21st is not judgment day, is everyone going to stop what they are doing (good deeds) and return to their normal lifestyles? I believe that you never know if you are going to wake up the next day, so you should live your life and do what you think is right before it’s too late.
ReplyDeleteThis story was depressing and upsetting, but it was also thought provoking. It challenges the notions that a successful life is a happy one. Ivan was successful, but he never truly lived. There was no depth and joy to his relationships. Some people may remember a person for their accomplishments, some for the relationships they had with this person, and some individuals inspire both. The ideal life is accomplished and filled with meaning. Ivan’s life was lacking the meaning aspect until he’s on his death bed. Death is scary to think about, but how a person is to be remembered after death is more frightening. His funeral is filled with people planning to play cards, and they don’t feel anything in Ivan’s passing. He will not be remembered as an individual, as inspirational, or as a person worth knowing. He simply existed instead of lived. People in the class have noted that the important part of the story is to not become a shell of a person, living through the motions of life. Living entails so much more. They asked how to avoid living an empty, prosperous life? The story is effective at raising this question, because it pries on normal human fears. I think an important part of life is to find ways that give it meaning. Only a person gives meaning to their life in the end, so what gives life meaning is individualized. However, most people want to be remembered, so relationships and achievements function as a way to live on. Ivan was missing the intimate component of these two, and he was left with regrets.
ReplyDeleteI didn’t really care for this story. Just not my kind of story. To me it seems that Ivan Illych tried to be a good guy and do the right things. Just sometimes he strayed away from doing good and fell into some guilty pleasures. He seems to have been a very smart man and seemed to be liked by most people, even if he did do something’s that were not always appropriate. He seems to have wanted to be liked and be a part of the highest society and go around with the most notable people of the area. I think a lot of people are like this. They want to do what is right and get along with others but they also want to enjoy some pleasures and fit in with the best crowd of people. I think he also fell into the trap of thinking that being educated made him better and allowed him to get away with things. I think this is what got him in trouble and made his life more miserable than it should have been. I think he regretted his actions later on but he didn’t do much about it. Many people are that way. They have regrets but don’t know what to do about it so just continue living with the regret. It is important to be educated but that does not make you a better person by default. I think it is important to stress this to students because they can easily fall into thinking they are better than others if they are more educated. However, how do you do this but still stress the importance of education to the students? They may feel that you are being hypocritical. Is there a way to stress education but still make sure students don’t think they are better by default when they are more educated than someone else? In addition, we need to teach students not to have regrets because that can make them miserable in life as well. We need to give them opportunities to try new things and encourage them to do so so that later on they don’t regret not trying new things. This is easier said than done though with some students than others but still important to stress.
ReplyDeleteI was compelled to read the recommended reading Deep in the Heart of Texas by Stanley Fish. I feel like this article tied into our classroom discussion last week about not really learning anything in school and only striving to get good grades. Fish's article elaborates on our classroom discussion by mentioning student evaluations and their bad effects. Naturally if you get an A in a class, you would probably give that teacher a very positive evaluation. If you got a C in a class, the student would probably be compelled to give their teacher a poor evaluation. Fish is right in the fact that your grade does not reflect what you learned. Your A teacher could have spoon fed the class the answers and not actually taught anyone. The C teacher could have challenged the students so much that they had never worked harder in their life. I think students are also inclined to give their teachers positive reviews when they don't have to do much work. American tends to be lazy, and I think that could show on teacher evaluations. My only concern with Fish's article (and he did mention this briefly) was that sometimes student evaluations are good because it is a way to find a "bad" teacher. Now, I am not saying that the students should decide who is a good and who is a bad teacher but sometimes outsiders need to know what is going on in the classroom. I've had teachers that just pop in a movie to teach long division to 3rd graders. I've had teachers leave high schoolers in the classroom unattended for 40 minutes. This is my only reason why student evaluations should be considered, but taken with a grain of salt. Perhaps the administrations could use student evaluations as a looking class into the classroom but find another way to assess teachers. What other ways could we assess teachers without using student evaluations? Would still using student evaluations make administrators biased?
ReplyDelete• Reading about Ivan Illych made me remember a few things that we’ve discussed already in this quarter and it reiterated a few other basic human feelings that everyone goes through. I believe that Tolstoy really focuses on the fact that humans know that they must do the right thing, such as going to visit their dear friend even if they live far away and it’s a pain to have to do it. I believe this story proved that you should live life with no regrets and that you should put on your big boy pants and make sure that your friends are well taken care of. I believe that Tolstoy and Rorty have a lot of the same ideas when it comes to the fact that each and every human being suffers pain and humiliation and that everyday life is what you make it to be. When we were discussing Rorty his message really spoke to me, because it was the most relatable to me. Matter of fact, I have tried to keep reminding myself on a daily basis that everyone suffers, just so it helps me to maintain my calmness and not to get so aggravated with people. In my opinion, Rorty and Tolstoy are in agreeance and I believe this is why I liked the Tolstoy piece so much. I just feel like it never hurts to be reminded that everyone suffers.
ReplyDelete-Emily Mink
This story made me very sad. Ivan lived his life, and realized on his death bed that her regretted most of it, because his life was empty of meaning. He was “part of the machine” and never stood out, or stood up for what he believed in. After reading this story it made me hope that I don’t end up like that. I want to use my life to help people, and not just to be part of an institution. I think that this is something that can definitely be achieved through being a teacher. However, it would also be very easy to be the type of teacher that is extremely boring, and does exactly what the administration or school board says to do, or how to do it. With the trend of overbearing regimes of people in state or national positions, I think it is important for a teacher to keep their integrity in tact in terms of the way they teach. I want to be able to say that I inspired children and changed lives, not that I was a cog in the institutional machine that the American education system is becoming.
ReplyDeleteThe story about Ivan Ilych was seriously depressing to me, which made it rather difficult to read. The fact that Ivan was on his deathbed and could not find satisfaction in his life is the typical portrayal of people on their deathbeds. No one wants to die feeling that their lives have somehow been unsatisfying. I was appalled by the unwillingness of any of Ivan’s family and doctors to help, they basically left him to die. I think too often it is assumed that sick people are just complaining and the attention they deserve is denied. I think if I was Ivan’s wife, I would feel extremely guilty for letting my husband suffer and not doing everything possible to help, especially since Ivan and his wife basically hated one another. I find Ivan’s entire life story to be pretty depressing. Nobody should die feeling that their life is not complete. I did not particularly like this story.
ReplyDelete- Kristen Calaway
After reading this story, I felt sorry for Illich. It seems that he regrets many of the decisions that he has made in his life and is realizing the mistakes he has made. We have all made mistakes and know what it feels like to be wrong, so I can empathize with him in that aspect. I just feel like I wouldn't want to live a life like he did. Family is very important to me and I couldn't imagine treating them with any sort of disrespect. This story made me think of some of the little decisions I've made or things I've done in my life and look at the impact they've had on my life. When I look back on my life I want to be able to know that I treated those closest to me as kind as I possibly could. Is this life desirable in any way? Would anybody be able to live this kind of life and not feel remorse or regret?
ReplyDelete--Eric Border
Ivan was not well liked. From the beginning of the story we can tell that Ivan was simply someone that everyone had to deal with and work around. Instead of mourning for Ivan at his service, his so called friends were planning a card game for later in the evening. It is sad to think that he was so disliked that people are more concerned with cards than with his passing. Ivan obviously didn't make the best decisions in life. On his death bed he questions whether or not his life could have been better and less empty. Ivan was more concerned with getting ahead in his career and disrespected many people along the way. Yes, your career is important, but how can you live a fulfilling life without having the support of friends and family along the way? Reading this story has made me think about my life and has got me wondering if what I'm doing now will make me happy for the rest of my life.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the story, I felt very sorry for Ivan. He clearly chose the wrong path in life and just had the wrong values. I am a firm believer that money and status, while great, doesn't bring you happiness. Instead, it is the people in your life that make it worthwhile. For me personally, I know that nothing I've accomplished in my life would mean very much if I didn't have people that I love to share those accomplishments with. It seems like Ivan was completely focused on the wrong things - money and social status. I think everyone’s fear in life is to be lying on their death bed, unhappy and dissatisfied with their life. Ivan died with a lot of money and he was considered to be of high class, but he was unhappy. Guaranteed there were others, less financially fortunate than him, who died happily, surrounded by loved ones that very same day. This story just goes to show that if we make life decisions based on how much money we will make, or what we can financially gain, we are not going to be truly happy. We need to make decisions based on what makes us happy – it may not be the thing that makes the most money. Unfortunately, I believe that society directs us to value money. Obviously, we need it to survive -nothing that will keep us alive comes free. But our society emphasizes that school is necessary to get a good job, to make lots of money, because then you will be happy. I don’t think this is the right message to be sending students.
ReplyDeleteChristina Mancuso
I found the article "Deep in the Heart of Texas" to be very relavent to the future education system in Ohio. Ohio's government is pushing toward using student evaluations as a way to determine a teachers pay. As stated in the article when a teachers pay is based on the satisfaction of their students the level of difficulty they teach with will decrease, because they want their students to enjoy being in their class.
ReplyDeleteWhen I look back at my years in high school the classes/ teachers that I enjoyed the most were the ones that required me to do the least amount of work and were the most fun to be in. At the time I felt like these classes were the best for my education, but after being out of high school for a few years the teachers that I appreciate the most are the ones that challenged me. These teachers prepared me for college and my future career. But at the time I would not have given these teachers a high satisfaction rating because I did not enjoy their class. This is not fair to those teacher for doing their job correctly and to their best ability.
This brings up the question how can a students opinion be a significant factor for a teachers pay and what effects on education will this type of system have?
-John Searfoss
I feel like this story is a good example of the pitfalls that we are to avoid in life. Ivan is dying and comes to the realization that he is truly not happy with how he has lived his life. He went down the wrong pathways as he simply cared about his career and his own well being. This is a warning about the lifestyles that we are to avoid if we are to be truly loved by those around us, showing us how lonely and unhappy we can become if we look out only for ourselves. Ivan did not treat those around him with resepect, and practically almost used his own family members to achieve his gains. As Ivan lay there, he realizes that he had trouble thinking of anything positive in his life, and that most of his memories from throughout his life were simply too painful to think about. He begins to lament many of the decisions that he had and starts to see that maybe he should have run things differently. Many of those who see such times wish that they had lived their lives differently. Unfortunately for many of them it is simply too late to change anything but they are able to see what is truly important in life. The question to ask is how can we avoid being like Ivan? The other question to ask is how do we truly decide what is right and wrong? This is often easier said than done and is a life long process.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Fish article, “In the recent past, A&M announced that it wanted to be a top ten public university. Now it appears to be announcing it wants to be an investment firm, a pharmaceutical manufacturer, and a car dealership.” I didn't realize until I found myself deep in my collegiate career that higher education is a business. It is all about MONEY. Discussed in brief at the last class meeting, why does OSU make me go to graduate school to get my teaching licensure? MONEY. Why do I have to take 5 classes covering the same information on childhood development? MONEY. Honestly, it makes me sick how obsessed this country is with capital.
ReplyDeleteFish comments on the ludacris idea that the students should be the ones telling the teachers how they should be taught. As if we don't have to go through grueling hours of classes and research to know what we're doing. If I am going to end up teaching in a classroom where my students are ultimately determining my salary based on how fun I am, then I want no part of it. As Fish says, many of the best teachers are the ones who teach you something that you recognize a decade down the road. GOOD teachers are not necessarily FUN teachers. A parent is your parent, not your friend just like a teacher is your teacher, not an entertainer.
Teachers are professionals, we are knowledgeable about children and how they develop. We know what to do and how to do it. We are experts, yet we are treated like nannies. I think we can all agree how absolutely insane this is!?!? So my question is, if this concept is as nutso to everyone as I assume (or hope) how can it seriously be considered? How can the people in charge honestly believe this is the best way? And if they do, we need new people in charge, because I am not going to school for thousands of dollars and 4+ years to be graded by a seven year old or a moody teenager.
I would like to comment on the article about student evaluations. I am very much against having high school students and elementary school children do evaluation. Most of them are too immature and would not adequately rate their teachers. However, after reading the article I felt a little upset about the way he spoke of college students and their use of student evaluations.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is that college education is a commodity. I have to pay for it (and it’s a lot of money), therefore I should get a say in how my education goes (at least in the sense that I am actually getting the education I pay for). I know this isn't the case for all college students, but I try to be very fair when I evaluate a teacher. However, as we were talking about last week, we take basically the same kind of classes over and over again (especially in the early childhood department) and we learn the same things. Since I have to pay to take those classes and I actually do want to learn, I think I have a right to say those classes are not stimulating or effective especially when the teacher just does a PowerPoint and you could look at the material online by yourself.
I actually like classes where I learn a lot and I am challenged especially the ones in my field of study. The article made it sound like all college students are lazy drones that hate doing any work. I may not be a very vocal student in class but I take a lot in and learn a lot from the class discussions. I know some students base their evaluations on whether or not the professor was entertaining but I really try to evaluate how I have learned and if the teacher really cared about teaching. Again, as long as higher education costs money and we have to pay to go to school, we have a right to say how we want our education to be.
I feel college is different than high school and elementary school because we make the choice to be here and pay for it whereas in high school you are required to go.
I do agree that the way college evaluations are done is not the best way to measure the teaching process. What is the best way to measure a teacher's performance through evaluations?
The story of Ivan Ilych was really sad. It is a story of not living life to the fullest and being more concerned with making a name for one's self rather than living in the moment. I was really struck by the scene in the beginning where Ivan's friends learn of his death and their first though is of their own advancement as a result. It makes you think about how self absorbed we are as a society that we can not even take a moment to simply mourn the death of a friend. The story makes you think about the decisions you make in life and whether looking at the big picture is really worth it if you have regrets on your death bed.
ReplyDelete-Katie Petrolo
This story is a sad example of how perception of a man might not be the actual story of the man. Ivan was looked upon by others as this upright and noble person, as described at the beginning of the story. However, the longer we go into the story, you can definitely see how things aren't as they appear from the outside perspective. The more success Ivan achieved, meant that more things were required to keep him happy. He started as an easy going guy with simple goals, and turned into a man who let superiority get the best of him. He felt that he needed someone to blame for his sickness. He placed blame on anybody who he felt didn't pity him enough. Nothing was ever his fault, and he turned into an attention starved person. Ivan thinks that his whole life was lived the right way, and he did nothing wrong to deserve such a painful ailment. He continuously reverts back to his anger towards those who don't pity him, and that is when his pain is at a maximum. Only when he is moments from death, does he reach an epiphany. That maybe he didn't do everything as perfectly as he thought he had. That maybe he is more of a burden to his family than they are to him. His selfishness had completely consumed him, and he never looked at his situation from his family's perspective.
ReplyDeleteThis shows how easily we can get caught up in our personal affairs and how it can ruin those we care about the most. Are we making the right decisions? We can look back and second guess every action we've taken in our lives, but regret is a useless emotion. We make our bed, and we have to lay in it. We made our choices with good reason at the time. Looking back, we might not remember why or how we reached the decision to make an action, we just see the consequences of them. Regret only leads to further anguish. Ivan, however, was so absorbed with himself, he didn't even realize the possible harm his actions did to others. The realization he has just before he dies, is the acceptance he has of such harm he has inflicted on others. That he could have done things differently. There is no changing the past. Especially when death is upon you. Make the decisions you need to make, and regret nothing. Just be sure to accept the results of your actions, good or bad.
My initial reaction to “The Death of Ivan IIych” is one of inspiration. The slow agonizing death of Ivan and the lack of love and companion in his life is undoubtedly depressing. However, the message to live beyond the ordinary life is incredibly motivating. The story of Ivan is all too common in society today. Too many people live meaningless and unfulfilling lives. Many Americans take jobs and families only because they think that is what is expected of them. Just like Ivan, too many people marry the wrong person, and stay with them for the wrong reasons. Millions of Americans live beyond their means and buy houses only to fill them up with junk from Home Depot or Bed Bath and Beyond. Where is the meaning and fulfillment in that? It took Ivan up until his death bed to realize that he led a life of little consequence and meaning. Maybe that is why Tom wants us to read this. Maybe as teachers we can live meaningful lives. We can lead lives beyond the ordinary. We can inspire and motivate our students to live purposeful lives.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this story, it makes me want to live my life to the fullest even more. Ivan lived a long life, but he regrets many things that he didn't take more seriously and choose to do. This is a classic story of a person who didn't take advantage of oppertunities that were presented to him. Ivan didn't live his life to the fullest, and he seems to be really bothered by some of the smaller choices and events that had happened to him. This story really makes you aware of how crucial every choice you make in life is. If you choose the wrong path, life can end rather quickly and without living life to its fullest. While it is a sad story, it has a very powerful meaning behind it. Live your life to the fullest, so you don't regret it later on.
ReplyDeleteWhat can teachers do to help? That is the big question that teachers struggle with. Motivating and becoming role models in these people's lives can go a long way in helping them out.
SCOTT LAMAN
After reading this account, I do feel that this story is all too common among most people of today. Often times the focus is placed on ones own career and success over one's happiness. In our society it is easy to fall into the routine of "keeping up with the Joneses" and comparing oneself to everyone around. The thought is that if everyone else has these things and they are happy, then I need these items and life to make me happy. However, as in the case of Ivan Ilych, the harsh reality of this outlook sets in when time has run out. I, like many of the others who posted, found this story to be very inspiring and almost a cautionary tale of what to be careful of in my life. I obviously do not have al of the same views as Ivan Ilych, being that I am in the education profession and will not make an enormous salary. I chose education because music is my passion and I love sharing this with others. I am fortunate to have found this passion and can directly experience transcendence through my music making and teaching. It is through this passion that I intend to aid in my students' discoveries of what their individual passions are and to avoid making the same choices as Ivan Ilych.
ReplyDeleteIt appeared that most of Ivan's life was miserable. He lost a few very good jobs, disliked being around his family, and sometimes could not afford his lifestyle. This is not a great way to live. People need to find their niche and stick to it no matter how much money it makes. Happiness is very important at any age. I feel that I went into the correct job path because I find it rewarding. Everyday is a new challenge. Ivan's family followed the same career steps, so he did not have the opportunity to follow his own dreams.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the story about Ivan, the very first thing I thought was "WOW! That really sucks to feel all of this right before your life ends!" and then mysecond, more imnportant thought was "Ireally hope that I dont feel this way at the end of my life!" The more I read of the story the more sad and dpressed I felt for Ivan. Clearly, he did not live his life the way he wanted to, andsadly many people feel this way as they are approaching death. People put such a massive importance on money and career success that they miss just living life. I know having money is important, its a valuable tool for survival. But there are way more important things in life. I know that once I am a teacher I will not be banking tons and tons of money. Which might mean that I may not get the newest cars or tv's. But I love children and I cannot wait to be able to have my own classroom! My mom has always told me that as long as you love your job then it wont be considered work. And I truely believe that if you are doing something just simply for the money then you, like Ivan, will be a miserable person and will have a great amount of regrets in life.
ReplyDeleteI like what other people have commented about living life concerned with making a name for yourself vs. living in the moment. There was a lot of regret from Ivan’s point, while he was on his death bed, about his life and decisions he made. The story is sad, but it could also be beneficial to read. I tried to think of why we would read this as future teachers. One reason could be that, in teaching, there is a problem where teachers want to get paid more and look good as a professional and don’t care about their students as much. I think that living in the moment for teachers means putting forth the effort that is needed to develop a healthy classroom environment where the students can learn, grow, and be encouraged. It means working hard at what you do to develop lessons that will push and teach your students in a positive way. I think it also means that teachers should work to meet the needs of their students and collaborate with them throughout the learning process. In this way, I think this novel could be telling us something about teaching. At the end of our time as teachers, will we look back with regrets? Or will we look back knowing that we gave the profession and the students all we had to offer?
ReplyDelete-Sarah Tidwell
I found the Ilych reading to be quite depressing in its entirety due mainly because my own personal beliefs, attitudes and lifestyle choices are vastly different from those of the character. As I was reading, I felt as though I was being agonizingly dragged along through a stubborn inner-monologue of a person who cannot see the value in the simpler, more beautiful, integral, naturalistic aspects of life. While we surround ourselves with “things”, day-to-day tasks, etc. it is not to fill the value of our lives through those things. In our age of technology and advancement, it is so easy and almost commonplace to be wrapped up in the popularity of updating your Facebook, checking celebrity tweets, watching the newest episode of Tosh.0, waiting for Apple to come out with yet another device better than the last, etc. It is also far too easy in this age to be wrapped up in the general melancholy state of being where we deal with these things day in and day out. In Ilych’s day these “things” would be the cookie-cutter lifestyle he desired; the interior decorating, dinner parties, knowing the right people, etc. In both aspects, are we not groomed to be this way? To stress over how we are perceived, how much money we make, how much success we have? Should not success be measured by happiness in right action? In any case, I felt that Ilych realizing this on his death bed is slightly dramatic for me because I feel that I already realize this at a very young age and in that sense am way ahead of Ilych. Tolstoy, whether he intended to or not, perhaps taught many this ideology and consciousness of the mundane life. How then can we as teachers begin to teach future generations to embody this idea at an early stage? Through right action and example?
ReplyDelete-Matt Zabiegala
As much as I enjoyed reading the story, I felt very bad for Ivan Ilych. He lived a very sad life from the inside, even though the story tells us that he was liked by everyone, it appeared to him when he was on his death bed that nothing he has done, was true, or right and that he was not honest with himself for a very long time. Ivan managed to accomplish all aspects of a successful life, a good profession, a wife and children. Apparently very successful, but was he happy?
ReplyDeleteA sad story like this one is rich with meaningful points of how people should live their lives. How do we want people to remember us? As persons who worked very hard and had no life so our existence was meaningless, or was people who made a change in our lives. As a student, I remember many of my teachers who made a change in my life. As a teacher, on the other hand, I want to be remembered as a good teacher who made a great change in my students’ lives to the better. So in myself I have to be satisfied with my life, with my achievements, I have to be able to do the right thing, and not regret what I am doing, unlike Ilych. If I walk in the right path of my life, I would be able to change everything to the better, even in the school where I work; I can make changes to work for the best of my students. I can go above and beyond the school system rules to help my students.
I do not want death to be the end when I realize that I have not done anything to help myself live a better life, or make the people around me happy.
My question is: how much of time does it take a person to realize that he is wrong? Are there ethical rules to live a good life? Do these rules apply to school life as well? I think life is complicated but living a good life is possible when we live ethically, following the rules and traditions of our culture and what we believe in.
I found the story about Ivan Ilych's life to be very sad and depressing. From the beginning of the story, after Ivan's death, we learn that even his wife is not very upset over the death of her husband. Instead, she is more concerned with the amount of money the government is willing to give her instead of grieving over the death of her husband. Also, we see that Ivan almost struggles more mentally than physically while he is in the process of dying. Ivan is forced to recall events from his life and to come to the sad conclusion that although he has done what is "right", he has not lived his life to the fullest. Although this is depressing, it is also inspirational. As future teachers, we should pass this message along to our students. I think that in today's society there is so much emphasis upon doing what is "right" even when it is not fun. In our classrooms, we need to remember that life is not always about standardized testing and getting into the most prestigious university. Although these things are important, as educators, we also need to emphasize other important things in life such as friends, family, and fun. My question is, in as complex of a society as we live in today, how do we as educators find the time to fit everything in? We do not want our students to grow up with regrets about their lives like Ivan did, but we also are told that we need to focus on the "right" things.
ReplyDeleteThe Stanley Fish reading brought up issues that I had never really thought about before. I guess that I always just assumed that nobody really pays attention to the student evaluations so I have never thought of them actually having an impact. I know that when I fill out the evaluations I would never factor in my grade, unless I feel that it was completely unfair, which I never have. I mainly talk about whether I feel that the professor actually cared about his or her students and about the class in general. If I personally do not like his teaching style then that is not his problem. However, I understand that their our students that will take out their bad grade out on the teacher whether it was their fault or not, and that is not okay. Since this is the case, I feel that their should definitely be a better evaluation technique in place, such as asking yes or no questions like "Was the professor always on time?" A teachers career should never be based on a students personal biased opinion. Yes, we should be able to share our opinions, because we knows how someone teaches better than the students, but not everyone will speak the truth or even know what the truth is. However, without student evaluations will teachers begin to not care as much about the students?
ReplyDeleteI would like to focus my comments on the Fish article. I would first like to point out that any idea that considers secession as a viable option makes any further ideas you may have null and void in my opinion! That said, after reading this article, and remembering other "great" ideas that have come from the great state of Texas (dubya) maybe secession would be best for all parties involved...Just something to think about.
ReplyDeleteShould teacher's merit raises or tenure positions be subject to student satisfaction responses? Absolutely not! I like the author only became aware of the value of my education many years later. The idea of giving a survey to a group of temperamental teenagers or uninformed middle schoolers is just absurd, plan and simple. As a current social worker, I am currently mandated by the ADAM board to complete what is called an OHIO Scale every 90 days. This scale is a very subjective tool used to gage how the client and their parent feels the client is functioning. I as the client's worker and third party also complete a scale. Typically each scale is completely different. The client themselves will often minimize the problems they are having, and the parents given the degree of frustration they are feeling on that particular day often describe problem in a more intense manner than is likely being experienced. The problem with such scales in general is the subjective nature of the tool. So much relies on how the individual who is completing the scale feels on that given day. I can see this being repeated over and over in classrooms across Texas. Students who were either jaded by a boyfriend/girlfriend, or close friends will take such feelings out on the instructor. Conversely a student may be enamoured by a teacher and give he/she higher marks than they deserve. So what is the answer? I believe that principal or assistant principals should take time to observe teachers in the classroom on a more consistent basis. After a few hours they will be more than able to make an educated opinion about said teacher. As far a college professors or instructors, why not create a position who's sole job is to observe instructor's in the classroom. Allowing students to dictate a educator's future unfathomable to me. If this is the future of education, why not eliminate the teacher altogether and make education a virtual experience?
This Ivan Ilych story was miserable. Unfortunately, this is what can happen when a person focuses on one goal. He learned his craft and did nothing but his craft, ignoring his family and alienating others. It makes me think of what could be going on in some of the students lives that I substitute for. When I ask why these kids have a “chip on their shoulder” or just bad attitudes in general and after this reading I thought, what if it’s because they have a parent or two like Ivan. Maybe the parents are not just obsessed with work, but with other things outside of the child. It really takes a toll. I think if the parents aren’t home to give and receive respect it’s going to be even more challenging to earn the respect from the already unhappy student.
ReplyDeleteIt also makes me think of what kind of teacher I want to be and I decided I don’t want to be Ivan. I do not want to have to step on people or be nasty and hideous to others to achieve my goals as an educator. I don’t think I need to test the waters with teachers and administration just because I think I have the right to do so. Hopefully as an educator I can use Ivan’s story so students can decide if they want to live a life like Ilych or as a person who wants to be remembered in a positive light.
Norma
I did not like the story about Ivan llynch because of how drab and depressing it was but it did make you think. At first when the author is discussing how all of the other characters are initially thinking about how Ivan's death is going to impact them by getting promotions and transferring their family, I got really upset. My thought to this was that a man just died and these people who are his colleagues and supposed friends are not wondering how his family is handling his death or anything of this sort that you would assume most people would be concerned with but they are being selfish and wondering what they can get out of it. This made me very mad but as I thought about it more I realized that this is how many people are in the world, focused on themselves and do not care about others and their wants and needs as long as their personal goals and needs are met and accomplished. Another thing that got me thinking was the first sentence of the second chapter, "Ivan Ilych's life had been most simple and most ordinary and therefore most terrible." Many people wish their lives were more simple but in fact our lives are all very complex and therefore we feel as is they are the 'most terrible' because of this. I believe that this may be a bit of 'the grass is always greener' mentality.
ReplyDeleteI agree with many of the comments. While reading the story I just couldn't help but to think how depressing it all was. Specifically that no one around Ivan had any empathy and they were all self-involved. When describing Ivan's life, I couldn’t help to notice just how, I don't know, mundane it all sounded. Although he traveled & lived in different cities, his life was empty. His relationships with other people were hollow, and his existence shallow. I found that it was especially interesting that as a judge, he detached himself from the people in court, esp. those on trial, but then found that everyone had detached themselves in the same way while he was sick. Retribution, maybe?
ReplyDeleteThe story just really made me take stock and helped emphasize that life is not about doing "what’s right" in the eyes of other or living based on society's standards. Life is about living, finding happiness, having moments of joy & fulfillment. I'm sure that as a teacher, it will be the little things that give me those moments. I will also be sure to seek these things out in life in general: to be willing to take risks and live life for joy & peace, and not propriety...
Throughout the entire reading until about Chapter 10, I believed that Ivan Ilych was creating his death. I believed that Ivan was upset with life and lost the meaning of life in his thoughts. I viewed Ivan as coming up with a reason to be ill, but in reality he was just angry at the world. However, when reading Chapters 10-12 I believe it was not that Ivan was creating his death, but rather that he was coping with dying. Ivan had a guilty conscious and was reliving all of his past memories. He was trying to validate his actions. Ivan was upset with how he handled some situations and was questioning if he lived the best life that he could have lived. Ivan doubted his time on Earth and what he had accomplished. I believe that all of these thoughts were Ivan’s way of coming to terms with dying. It is not until Ivan accepted his life and forgave himself for the things that he could not change that he died. Once Ivan was able to come to terms with the life that he lived he was able to let go.
ReplyDeleteThis book showed the struggles that one goes through when trying to conceptualize death. There is hope that there is more after it ends. It is scary and many fear thinking about the inevitable. Ivan takes us through that process. When I was a nursing major we learned about the signs of dying. When a person dies they have to accept death first. This is shown through Ivan. It makes me wonder though if people fear death more than they enjoy the time they do have? Ivan spent months fearing death which took away from the time that he could have spent with his family. Why is it that we fear death? I believe a lot of fear comes from the fact that no one really knows what happens after death so we allow our mind to run wild in the possibilities. Many of these possibilities can be scary, but it is when we allow our self to make peace with what is to come that we are able to appreciate our time on Earth.
The Death of Ivan Ilych
ReplyDeleteWhile reading this story I was getting frustrated with how miserable it made me feel. In the beginning of the story, at the funeral, I found it very interesting how one of the guys was focused on a bridge game and the funeral didn’t even seem that important. Another part that stuck out to me was how Peter felt very uncomfortable about Ivan’s death and wanted to hear more about it. How Peter feels about death is similar to how Ivan felt when he was dying; he didn’t understand why it was happening to him. I would hate to end my life in a way that I regretted how I lived it . While he was living his life and making money he was happy but after looking back on it he realized how miserable of a life he had. He was focused too much on materialistic things. I believe that someone should live a life where they are not just focused on themselves. Throughout his death, Ivan keeps going back to how maybe he didn’t live his life right. One could ask what does living a life right truly look like and is it necessary in order to die peacefully?
I think The Death of Ivan Ilych is unfortunately an example of how many people end up after living an extremely focused, career-driven life. Our generation is strongly focused on knowledge and education. For the most part, we strive to learn, grow, achieve, and excel. This drive towards excellence seems great, but because of this unending desire to achieve, our generation has become severely career-oriented, so much that we often sacrifice things that other generations might have not, in order to put full effort and dedication into a job. And here, we have Ivan Ilych, who put important aspects of life on the back burner while he focused on his own personal success. He realizes what he has done and regrets pushing important and necessary aspects of his life away, but unfortunately, it was too late.
ReplyDeleteI have watched this happen to friends I know. They enter the beginning of their career and are so focused on doing a great job and making a good impression, they ignore things they once prioritized and valued. I think it is important to be aware that this happens, especially as teachers. Teaching is a profession that doesn't end at 3:00 when the bell rings. Teachers are constantly putting hours into planning and thinking of new and different ways to help their students succeed. It is extremely easy to get wrapped up in this and I think it is very important to make time for non-career values, like family, friends, and anything that made a person happy before entering a busy career. If those values are distorted or lost, WE become lost and may not recognize it until it's too late, like Ivan Ilych.
I really enjoyed reading this article/story. I felt that it had a wonderful life message. There are more important things in life than your career/money. The small things are what matters most. This story kinda of reminds me of a quote I have heard before, "Life is too short to live with regrets. So love the people who treat you right. Love the ones who don't just because you can. Believe everything happens for a reason. If you get a second chance, grab it with both hands. If it changes your life, let it. Kiss slowly, forgive quickly. No one ever said life would be easy, they just promised it would be worth it".
ReplyDeleteThis article was pretty sad but its message is clear.
I really enjoyed reading both The Death of Ivan Ilych and Fish's article. It seems to me that the central problem in both cases is an active focus on the superficial and immediate which pushes away the the more substantial and rigorous parts of life - those parts which are ultimately the most rewarding and meaningful. Ivan Illych purposefully shuts out "all that [is] raw, vital," and is "always capable of separating the official when he need[s] to and of discarding the human." It is only the spectre of death that is powerful enough to make him truly acknowledge what an empty life, so regrettably focused on appearances, he has led. Our educational system, dependent as it is on student evaluations, isn't so different. As Fish points out: "Student evaluations, by their very nature, can only recognize, and by recognizing encourage, assembly-line teaching that delivers a nicely packaged product that can be assessed as easily and immediately as one assesses the quality of a hamburger." We want Ivan Ilych's pleasant and decent, but insubstantial, kind of experience. Fish asserts that often the very best teaching is characterized by confusion and discomfort. I wholeheartedly agree with this based on my own experience. Because of previous disappointing educational experiences, when I did encounter professors who confused me, I had enough wisdom - and desire to learn - to feel delighted. I enjoyed and thrived on the challenge. Unfortunately, I think many people who go to college don't actually have a desire to learn, but instead just want the piece of paper which makes them appear capable for a job. So they just "get by" without demanding much from themselves. For Ivan Ilych it was death, but is there anything that can snap people out of their indifference toward rigorous, truly involved learning and desire for material success? I'm not sure there is, but I would like to think that I will be able to inspire some of my future students to truly enjoy learning, to nurture their innate curiosity, and even - maybe - to value confusion.
ReplyDeleteThis story of Ivan was very depressing, I felt bad for the man. The positive thing is that this story is a lesson to all of us to not make our life in to a meaningless job, setting our minds on meaningless things. I think this is a great example of what can happen if money and a career is our goal. I think it is important to consider this when we are teaching and what exactly are we preparing our students for. Many readings in this class have been about the goals of the education system. This story is a forewarning, that if we are a system that is solely to get children through school to get to college to get a job to make money, we are doing millions of people a disservice. If we keep this as our focus we are going to have many people who are dissatisfied at the end of their lives because their focus was on getting through to make money. I like this story of Ivan if that is the message we take from it, that our education systems need to change. We need to inspire individuals, not just pass them through to get the grade and make money. It will be a sad sad world if this is what we make our children to be.
ReplyDelete-Megan Conway
I did not find the article of the death of Ivan because I found the article dull in the context however I thought the message was intriguing. I thought it was disgusting to think that his colleagues were concerned with how they are going to benefit from his death. I think that even today people look how they can benefit from others' pain no matter what the cost is. I feel that those who get what they desire never stop wanting and continue to become greedy. Many people in our society are never satisfied with what they have, there is always something more that they desire and strive to attain. We have gotten so caught up in materialistic items and many people do not have genuine feelings for other business partners. We have become such an industrialized society that we are strictly business.
ReplyDeleteCortney Hall
This reading seemed very important to me and my life. I constantly find myself living my life for others and not focusing on what my life means to me. I want to be happy. This reading probed me to ask myself what happiness is. Is it being a college graduate, someone with their masters degree? With 2 kids a dog and a house in suburbia with a white picket fence? While we all strive to be well-liked, will that even help to make us happy? I would rather disagree with people over moral issues and be known for my personal strength and known as a hard worker who is not afraid to stand up for myself. Being well-liked can only take you so far, but since reading this story I see that it can be a weakness. I do agree that we should focus more on the value of people and their ideas and not on material things just because society tells us that we need to. Tolstoy tends to deal with moral issues and I find that when I read his work I ask myself a lot of questions about morality.
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